Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: In this episode, I'm joined by Matt Wolak. Matt is a master when it comes to B two B SaaS sales. And in this episode, we go super deep into things that are working today in B two B SaaS sales. Matt's specifically an expert when it comes to closing. So if you got the top of the funnel, kind of mastered getting leads in, we're going to help you close a lot more SaaS deals and customers here today. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Matt Woleck.
Okay, so I wrote a pretty popular email a couple of weeks ago of, like, the ten sales laws that I try to live by, and it got really good response.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: And the one that just fries my ass is not sending a proposal the day that you have a call. And it blows my mind. Like, I have a call with someone, an agency or a consultant or something, and they're like, yeah, I'll get this to you in, like, three days. And then it's like, oh, my wife twisted her ankle, or I had to take the dog to the vet, or something like that. And I'm like, you just wasted my time and yours to not. I mean, literally, you go into Proposify or HubSpot or whatever, and you click three buttons and you send the proposal. I just don't get it.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Do you see this a lot?
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Or is it I just have bad luck?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: No, you're dead on. You're nailing it. I think it's horrible. It's super frustrating because we talk about speed to lead, but there's also speed to close. Like, once you have them in that emotional state that they feel like they need it, don't let them hang out. Their emotions will yeah.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so so let's dig into that a little bit. One thing I've started doing recently, and Mike, thank you. I talked about my coach, my business coach on here a lot. Mike, thank you. Mike Del Ponte, he really emphasizes with me, craig, when you're on a sales call, get the next commitment before you hang up. And it can be, I'm going to send you a proposal. Let's schedule 15 minutes on Thursday to review it. It could be, get out your credit card and let's do this. It could be get other stakeholders involved. Where do you see in your coaching of salespeople? Where do you see people come up short? And what are the easy wins for folks to keep that momentum going? Because I think it's so key.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have a four step process. It's called the perfect deal process. And the last part of that, the L in deal, is called lead, meaning you need to be in charge, and you need to be the one leading each step of the way. And one of the facets of that is what we call bam FAM. Book a meeting from a meeting. So just like you said, you have to have that next step committed to whatever it is. And there's the old adage, somebody's getting closed on the call. Either you're closing them or they're closing you, which is a pretty aggressive thought process. But by the way, when they close you, they're closing you, that they don't need it or they're not going to buy. That's the idea of the saying. But you've got to have that next step settled and figured out or else the deal will die.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah, and I kind of have like a mental hierarchy, right? It's like, we're good, like, close the deal. I've not actually gotten credit card just because it's not how I roll, but I've been sold like that and that's a little much for me, which is probably why I don't do it. The one that I really like these days is like, let's schedule the onboarding call because that's the next step in our process.
[00:03:14] Speaker C: Great.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Or the next one is the kind of next one down from there is like, hey, it's essentially let's schedule another call. That's like a consultation. Like, sales call is learning about each other, and the next one is like, hey, let's do a show discovery call. We're going to figure out how to build your podcast with you. It's just like 30 more minutes of me showing what I got. Maybe we'll bring in one of our producers or something. And then the shitty one is, I'll send you the proposal. Who else on your team is involved, at least so I have another contact, but that's kind of my hierarchy. These status, I don't know. Are there other things that you try to throw out if you're trying to get that next commitment on a first call?
[00:03:55] Speaker B: No, I like those things. Let's schedule the onboarding we have used, hey, we've got a couple of training spots open or one training spot open right now. Let's get you booked for that so that you don't lose it. So those types of things just to create some urgency, I think is critical.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: So I'm talking about selling like a productized service.
How does this differ if you're selling SaaS? Because we sell SaaS too, but most of it's like self serve. We don't get on a lot of sales calls for SaaS. But how does that priority schedule change for SaaS, folks?
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Well, it depends on the level of SaaS. If you're talking Enterprise SaaS, then you're really not going to be able to close right away. If it's a lower ticket SaaS, you can definitely close. We have plenty of our clients who are closing on the call or right after the call.
Your sales cycle is just going to be much shorter. But yeah, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Like we said before, whatever that next step is, we just have to make sure we get that next step. And at some point the next step is going to be the deal closes.
[00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
I tell you one of the other big ones that I never did. Just like, Fuck, I'm a salesperson. But I'm just chicken is asking about budget and happened to me today. I asked about budget.
It was literally ten times what I would have quoted. Normally, literally, they have ten times as much to spend as I would have quoted. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to go create this proposal and add a zero to each column. It's crazy, and I never did it, but I started doing it a few weeks ago and it's awesome because I think a lot of good selling is like helping the customer make a good buying decision, for sure. And asking for budget is them kind of saying, like, okay, this is how I value the service that I'm trying to buy.
[00:05:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: And if it goes the other way, you learn pretty quick if they're not a fit for you.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: You don't have to worry about talking to them too much.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
As you're working with SaaS folks on sales and coaching within your company, what do you see as the low hanging fruit that most people miss?
[00:06:05] Speaker B: I think that most people think sales is intuitive and that you just pick it up and you just basically start telling them about your product.
But most people don't understand that it's not about you, it's not about your product. It's not about how you're going to do this or that, or they're going to click this or that. It's the results. What are they getting out of it? What's the outcome? Where are they going to be your thing? Whether it's a service or a product, that's just the medium that they use to get to where they want to be. Are they making more money? Are they saving money? Are they being more efficient? Whatever it is, it doesn't matter about your tool. It matters that they fully understand their problem and that they understand you can get them to solving that problem.
That's what most people don't get. They think, like we talked about before, most of the people I work with have built a great system. They're pretty excited about it, and they think if I just show this to people, they're going to love it.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: This tool is great. But the problem is that it's not about the tool, it's about the outcome.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: How often do you think that prospective customers don't know what problem they have?
[00:07:19] Speaker B: I would say I mean, it'd be anecdotal, but I would guess like 50 50. So a lot of them know their problem, but they don't know the depth of their problem. They don't know how bad it is or what could happen to them if they don't fix it ASAP. And so a lot of salespeople mess up because they see that, oh, they know their problem. Cool, let's move on. I'll just talk about my product, but we can't stop there. We need to get that buyer emotional and they need to understand that this is horrible, we've got to fix this and we got to fix it now.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Or else we're in trouble.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: And that's where people mess up, is that they just look for fit and move on. And we didn't get the buyer to a point that they realize they need to make a move and they're going to take action quickly. And that's why people don't close quickly. That's why people don't close enough.
[00:08:08] Speaker C: It's bad.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Do you think this applies the same for inbound versus outbound leads?
[00:08:16] Speaker B: Yes, because I mean outbound leads, when you have generated those, usually the ones who respond have some sort of reason for responding. They feel like they've got something. However, I always point to this, that whatever problem they think they have might not be the true problem. Right. Sometimes it's the effect of the cause of a problem. And so as sellers, we need to be the experts. We need to be those consultants who can look at the situation, analyze and figure out, well actually this is the real problem, this is really the struggle. Even though they think it's this, it's that.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: And I would guess use a lot of metrics like you go into HubSpot or Pipedrive and pull metrics around like bookings, show rate, close rate, those kind of things, to determine where a sales team is coming up short and where they need to focus their energy to optimize for sure.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah, if you can dive in, you can take a look at that, but sometimes you don't have an opportunity to jump into that. They're not going to give you access to that. And so if you can ping them and ask them the questions I mean.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: Discovery is I don't know how you.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Feel about it, Craig, but I feel like discovery is the most important part of the process. And if we don't discover well, if we don't understand how to discover well, we're never going to learn that these are problems and we're never going to be able to sell to the real problems and they're going to not feel motivated enough to take action.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: I think it even informs a lot of product level discovery and information.
We're talking to folks and they keep saying the same thing over and over and over and you go, fuck, we got to sell that thing because everybody wants it.
I think I have certainly been guilty of just like you were saying earlier, you just get on and you start spouting off what you do and folks go, fucking guy doesn't care about me or what I want or anything like that and he doesn't even sell what I need. Yeah, when I started really asking, I asked the same four or five questions generally and really try to dive into all of them. But we have 45 minutes sales calls. That's 30 minutes of basically them talking and telling me about them and their problem and where they're at and why they booked the call, how they found us from there, it's not that complicated. You just basically say what they said and we do this thing that helps you solve your problem.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Not to oversimplify, I think that's exactly right. If that's a 45 minutes call that you have, that's exactly the balance that I would want. 30 minutes of discovery and getting them really truly understanding what the problem is and only 15 minutes explaining how they're going to solve it and that other people have solved it using you before.
I have an analogy for this. My clients always laugh at me because I have so many analogies for all the different things. But the analogy is, let's say you're crawling through a desert and it's dry, it's hot, the sun is bearing down on you. It's everything that you can picture of. Desert, horribleness. And you're crawling, crawling, crawling. You're about to die, things are really bad. And all of a sudden somebody comes along and says, hey, do you want some water?
You're not going to say, well actually, is it filtered water? Because I only drink is there reverse osmosis? Is this avion spring water? No, give it to me. It's a canteen. I don't care. Where has this been? I don't care. I need it right now. And that's the same thing. If we can get our prospects to understand that they're in a real bad situation and it's got to be fixed ASAP, as long as they just hear you have something that's going to do it and does it and has done it before for others, great. I have one of my clients, awesome guy, he was struggling a ton. He was only closing at about 2.9% on his demos, which is insanely low, and he learned it's, got his discovery incredibly strong. We put some process in place and he said Matt, I'm now to the point where people are 90% closed before they ever see the product. And the product demos are really short. He's closing now over 33% of his demos from 2.9% because the discovery is so much stronger.
[00:12:19] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: That's awesome. Speaking of discovery and I guess like demo, do you like to show stuff, a deck or or a screen share or something like that or is it just people talking?
[00:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's one of those things. There are some things with my clients that I like you have to do this. This is one of those where I'm like if you do it, it can help, but I don't require it. There are certain situations where you don't have to have a deck, but if you have a deck, you have to do it the right way. Now the wrong way that most people do it is again, they focus on themselves and they talk about the product and the company and how great this company is and all these logos that they've signed up before and the buyer doesn't care.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: They don't care.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: They care about themselves. And so we just need to focus on them and what their problem is and how the problems can be solved. And we have a formula that we use for our decks that we share with our clients that's really powerful, that kind of totally changes the conversation and gets the prospect realizing that their problem is deeper than maybe they thought and that this is the company that can.
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Solve it for them.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool.
We don't use any materials. Part of it is we're selling a service, so it's not like, oh, this is the screen where you do this, or whatever.
And I like it because for me, the second you turn on screen sharing, the other person zoned out.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: Right?
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Because it just took over my screen. Fuck it, I hit escape. And so I'm over checking email over here because I know you're as the salesperson, looking at the screen, not looking at me. And I hate it so much. I'd rather send the deck afterwards, which is what I do sometimes. Or it's in our proposal.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just terrible for my coaching. I don't have a slide deck or anything, but I do take notes during discovery and I share those notes with them on a screen. Share.
[00:14:12] Speaker C: And they love it. They love it.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: They're like, Holy cow, this is what you got. Wow.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: I would agree.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Do you do something like on the iPad where you're writing or do you type it out in the CRM?
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's written on the iPad, so all my scribble and everything. And I think it just feels very real to them and it just feels super consultative. They love it. And it's really helpful because I'm actually like diagramming. Like, here's a problem, we need to do this.
It's really powerful.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that.
Let's talk about Toro Wave and your sales motion. There is that like I see on the website demo sign up or you can start a trial.
What are you hoping folks do when they come? So it's like SMS marketing software. What does your sales motion look like there?
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Yeah, so it is SMS marketing software. It works though, both for the marketing sales side, but also on the customer service side. People use it all over the place, but essentially either one, whatever's, more impactful for them, whatever they need. So really they can do a trial, they can talk with us and we'll walk them through the demo of it.
But we're seeing some serious interest take off right now. I think too many times, people are too reliant on email. I'm not saying don't give up email, but too many times in sales processes have a conversation like, let me just hammer with email. Email people are kind of over email, whereas text are new and different and feel more connecting and more personal. And a lot of people are like, well, wait, do my customers even want to hear from me by text? Am I crossing a line there? But studies actually show that 74% of people want to have text conversations with their vendors. It's just easier, simpler. Usually it's quicker, more casual, so they don't feel so uptight. And it's really cool what's happening. Those who are texting are seeing big gains over those who are not.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: Interesting. And I assume you mix this in with email and phone calls. So kind of having omnichannel communication with folks and so with HubSpot and Pipedrive and all that kind of stuff.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Precisely.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
Tell me about like so I'm on Torowave.com. You got pricing from like $27 to $500 a month. How do you feel about someone who's going to be on the $27 a month booking a demo?
[00:16:31] Speaker B: We're okay with it. So we look at that as a land and expand strategy so that if they get started there, we're going to do everything we can to convince them they need to be sending more texts. Also, we want to help them grow so we actually provide growth training. Once they're members, we want them to grow their business. Obviously it benefits both of us if they do and they can move up to another plan. Move up to another plan. And eventually they can be a $500 per month customer. Which means if they're that big, they're getting that many texts, that means they're getting value out of it and they're winning a lot.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: All right, so help me with this maybe. So we also start at $19 a month and we have very little expansion revenue. So we're a podcast hosting platform.
The opportunities for expansion revenue are people having more downloads or for a private podcast, more private subscribers, which, you know, in podcasting, neither of those happen quickly very often. Whereas, like, for you or I'm ConvertKit as my list grows, I have expansion revenue built in, I think. Not to bitch about our business, but it's one of the downfalls. We don't have a lot of opportunity for expansion revenue, and so as a result, we do almost no sales calls for our hosting.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Unless I was 19. Flat. I agree. If I was 19 and there was not much expansion, I wouldn't either. In fact, I have people come to me and they're like, hey, we need help with our demos. And I'll say, okay, what's your price point? They're like, 19. I'm like, you don't need to demo. Okay.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: They're just saying no.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Yeah, your LTV to CAC will be way too upside down.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: Yeah, man.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: I tell you, folks listening to the show for a long time know, I've been trying so hard for so long to build expansion revenue into the business, and I think it's just like I'm at the point where I'm just like, it's not that kind of business.
We're not going to have a lot of $500 a month customers.
We do on our professional services side, which is a great business too. But I think that's just kind of the date we came to the prom with.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. The only thing I could suggest would be maybe are there partners, are there affiliate opportunities for the people that you bring on board that you can introduce them to other products or tools that work great with your tool that you can get some affiliate revenue from so you could get some other revenue sources? But I agree, it's definitely a tougher path.
[00:18:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Curious for kind of shifting to outbound. And we said before we started recording, I don't want to talk about outbound, but we just started doing some outbound because the way I look. So we built our business almost entirely on content marketing inbound organic SEO. It's amazing because it just sits there and it compounds and it's amazing over time. The problem with it is it's so fucking slow, right. And you have almost no control over it. So I'm just sitting here in the last few months thinking like, okay, we need something else. We need a way to go touch these people and reach them and bring them into the fold and outbound. So we tried ads first. We've tried ads many times, and I just suck at it. I think. Now, I'm not going to say they don't work, but I suck at it. We've hired the consultants, blah, blah, blah, and it's just like, I can't make it work.
So we're trying outbound because I know as bad as we think it is in the business, a lot of people still respond to it.
I guess the question is just kind of like, where with your coaching customers, maybe where are you seeing outbound working best and what types of situations or businesses or interests or approaches?
[00:20:02] Speaker B: I think as with anything in sales, those who have a process do much better than those who don't. And by that I mean some people will just say, hey, we need outbound. They go find some outbound tool, they load up a list, or they get the list from the tool and they just shoot out. Let's put together a couple of sequences and hopefully it works.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: I think the ones who do better really take time to truly understand their ICP, even have several conversations with customers, even talk about what are the main things this and that. They do better at testing what's working. They do better at Omnichannel, like we talked about, hey, let's mix in some other things within the outbound. They also have the right strategy for the right market. Meaning if your tam if your total addressable market is very small and you're targeting very big, large organizations, throwing a mass blast of 10,000 emails out is probably not the right move. You probably should go identify who are the key players. Maybe let's do some ABM, some account based marketing and really pick out five or six people at each company that we can start to target with personalized messages. We can learn about that person, where they went to school, what they like doing, what are they thinking about, what are they focused on, and really start getting tight on personal stuff. Whereas if you spent that kind of time for a product like yours, that's $19 and you got to a really personal level of discovering all about them before you even reached out, you're going to spend so much time and effort that it won't be worth it once you do get some of them. So having the right strategy for the right target for that market is critical.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: No, that's helpful. And I think that we kind of have a barbell approach, if you will. So we have the $19 month over here, and then we have professional services, which are like 2000 a month over here. And so I think outbound for us is much more towards the professional services just because the LTV and the ARPU can kind of support it in the medium term.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: And I don't think the Mass Blast is terrible, especially if you have a $19 product. You can do mass blasting and you'll get some. It's going to be a low percentage, half a percent to a percent or something. So it's okay. Just don't spend any personal time on it. Like put together a big thing. Make sure you're smart about talking about the right things. Make sure you're testing which emails are working versus which aren't. You could mix in some additional channels like we talked about texting and even social media outreach or even combining ads with that. So it's targeted towards those same people. There's things we can do.
If it's a small amount, you can still go outbound. It's just you need to make sure that the time spent is much lower.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm bouncing around a little bit here, but this is super interesting. I just love talking to salespeople because it's like I don't get a chance to I thought a lot of marketing people that I talk to, but this is a whole different ballgame. I agree. I'm working on I have a tab open right now, this customer, potential customer, that's way up here in terms of price.
And I'm actually a little unsure because in a product or service, we want to sell exactly the same thing every time. We want to sell our $2,000 a month with a $7,000 onboarding fee or whatever, and now literally adding zeros to things. How do you think or when coaching customers or your clients like, okay, you're going upmarket or you have this special exception, what kinds of things should I be thinking about to say, all right, we're going to put together this special thing that's literally ten times bigger than what we normally sell. What should I be thinking about?
[00:23:39] Speaker B: I think the first thing that you could do, and it's something just looking back on my career in those situations is actually not think. And it's funny to kind of say that after you ask that question, but a lot of times we limit ourselves and we say, whoa, I mean, I don't think it's worth that much. They won't like it. They don't think that. And we start to think that we're not worth that. And we start to realize or kind of convince ourselves or sell to ourself that nobody's going to want it for that. And yet I sell my coaching services for far more than I ever thought that it would have been worth or somebody would have paid for it, but they love it. And I get amazing responses, especially from the highest ticket people. And it's because it's more about them and not really about me. They have problems that are still, even though they're my highest paying clients, still much bigger than what I'm charging them. And it's all about, can we solve those big, huge problems for them?
[00:24:40] Speaker C: It's great.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: The other thing about it that I found really interesting in my journey is when I raised prices and I went from fairly cheap to not as cheap. And so this is a while ago, the close rate actually went up.
And it's really funny how that happened, but people believed in it more, and it's especially true within coaching. It can be true within other services and even product stuff like SaaS, but people believed that it would help more.
[00:25:11] Speaker C: Right?
[00:25:11] Speaker B: And so I have an analogy for this, too, Craig.
So let's say you and the wife, you're having struggles. It's been a little rocky. Just haven't really focused on each other too much lately. There's been some challenges.
[00:25:22] Speaker C: It's been tough.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: Now you want to make things right, and so you decide, I'm going to.
[00:25:29] Speaker C: Take her out to dinner. Okay.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: You look at a couple of places online. You find one place looks pretty good. You get a sandwich and fries and a drink, all of it for $9.99.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Then you find this other place, and you're like, oh, wow. And then you start adding it up. I'm going to have to have the steak and then drinks, and then we're going to need the sides, and we're going to need the salad. And you start realizing it's going to be $100 per person. So you got 999 versus $100. Now you're having challenges and there's problems, and you know, you need to convince her that you care about solving these problems.
Are you even going to look at the 999 place? Are you even going to consider it? It's not even going to be like, part of your thought process. You're going to say, we're going right to that thing. We need to solve these problems. Right? And that's the same thing with buyers. If you position yourself too low and they've got real challenges and real problems, they're going to say, that's not going to get it done. That's not. Going to make it happen for us. We need something real.
[00:26:33] Speaker C: Right.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: And once I learned that, it totally changed the game.
[00:26:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: I totally resonate with you on the it's not my perception of value, it's theirs because I don't have the same problems as them. Yeah, I mean, I think what we're going to charge this customer is insane. Right, but it's because I have been doing this for eight years and I know everything there is to know about it. They don't, and they have a problem they want to solve in a really high quality.
Yeah.
[00:27:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: So you and I connected from Twitter, I think, or LinkedIn, I don't know. Those are the only two places that I hang out, so it's one of those. Me too.
See you posting a lot and engaging in stuff there, talking about sales and SaaS and stuff.
What's the strategy there for you these days?
Why be active on social?
[00:27:27] Speaker B: I think everybody should build their brand, and a lot of people are like, well, should just founders and CEOs do it? No, I think everybody within the company, I mean, you actually get some exponential effect when you've got your leaders, your sea levels, your directors, your sales team, all those people also doing it. You're going to get a lot of people seeing that out there. And I just think the power of the brand is something that I took way too long to learn. And I only recently relatively it's been three and a half years or so since I started really building my personal brand. I only recently realized that and I should have been doing it all that time before. And it's one of those things, like, the best time to do it would have been five years ago when things were really taking off online. The second best time is right now. Just start and if you think about it, people connect with people. So if you're representing a brand, a lot of times I have clients who are out there, they're on LinkedIn, they're posting under the brand, and I say, stop that immediately. Like, put a couple of things up there just so people don't think that the company is dead. But post under yourself. Post under your team as people, because people buy from people and people connect with people. People don't connect with brands. And if you look at it, Tesla has like 10 million followers. Elon Musk has 140,000,000 followers. People don't care about Tesla, not to even mention that on a site like LinkedIn in particular. LinkedIn actively will promote people and it will throttle back companies. Like, if you scroll down, you're very rarely going to see company posts, but you're going to see people posts all the time. And so it's absolutely a must.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Tell me about your kind of social process. Like, do you do all your writing? Do you have someone to help you? What does that look like on a regular basis, like a weekly basis or something?
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah, good question. So back when I started, I was doing everything and I was spending hours and hours on LinkedIn. I would post, then I would go talk to other people and interact with their posts and engage with them and then build partners of, hey, you do this great.
Now, I do have a team, but one of the things that we got smarter at was repurposing. And so we have a podcast as well. It's called scale your SaaS. And essentially from that we get a lot of different pieces of content on there. So we'll get, obviously, the podcast itself. We get the YouTube video. My video editor breaks that down into several different clips. We get quotes that we make a little quote image out of. It goes on instagram. We do all kinds of things. Sometimes we make a carousel of images based on the learnings out of that show. And so we'll get ten or eleven different pieces from that one thing. It goes on our blog. So we get the SEO hit.
If you google SaaS sales coach Right now, I'm going to be on the first page because we've just done this for so long and gotten so many pieces out of it, it's compounding and it's really impactful.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a perfect advertisement for our Castos production service. I mean, that's what we do. We say we make media brands out of leading b, two b companies, right? And I think it's a little off because it can apply to a personal brand and it can apply to companies who want to do the same thing, right? It starts with this keystone piece of content, right? It's a podcast in video format, and it's the audio podcast. It's a video podcast. It's the shorts, it's the mids, which is like the latest thing, I think is like five minute segments, which we're loving these days. And then it's all the text based posts that you get out of it.
[00:31:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: And we just do that for customers on autopilot. It's an amazing service.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: I've seen those Midli. We don't do that, but maybe we should start doing that. I saw Tucker Carlson with something like that, like a five minute bit of his 30 minutes thing.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: You know what's cool? So for this podcast, for rogue Startups, I post the long form and the shorts on the rogue startups YouTube page, and then I post the mids on my personal page.
And that's a cool way for me because I'll go talk for two minutes here about something and it's me, right? It's me talking. And YouTube doesn't care if I take a bit from over here and put it on another channel. I actually had someone tell me they actually really like that because it gets all this kind of cross pollination of stuff.
Yeah, that's the mid strategy that we're using, is like, shorts stay on the native channel with the long stuff and then mids go to the personal channel. So just something to think about.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Got it. Yeah, I think that's pretty slick. I think we'll try that. But I am a believer in what you're doing because when I got started, I was doing all of this myself. And because of that, there would be times when I wouldn't do it and I'd miss this and I'd forget this or I'd do it wrong or do it poorly. And none of it looked good. And so I needed help with that. I'm glad you're helping people.
[00:32:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: One thing I'm struggling with these days is we create so much media content, video natively, that it's a lot easier to create a bunch of short videos than it is text posts. But I think especially today, at least, LinkedIn rewards text much more than video. And I think LinkedIn is the place from a business perspective where I want to grow. It's kind of a challenge, man, because I'm creating so much video content, but it's the wrong platform for that stuff. I don't know. Do you run into that? You're like, man, I got to write a bunch of words and that's a hassle, or do you just kind of say, that's cool?
[00:33:00] Speaker B: I learned that a while ago when I really started ramping up my personal brand myself as well as three or four others. We kind of shared what was working and what wasn't working. We realized that video doesn't work as well as it probably should. I mean, video is such a great medium, but the text stuff works much better on LinkedIn and so I don't bemoan it. We do repurpose some of our stuff from other places to create text posts, but a lot of it's really natural and original and I kind of like it. I enjoy that it's different than other things I do during the week. I don't do a lot of it anymore because we have so much of it in stock that I don't have to write a lot of them anymore. But every now and then something happens, literally just and that's what I like too. I just kind of take things that happen in my life. And this is the YouTube that we're releasing tomorrow was from something that happened last week and it was pretty funny, but I can share that with you if you like. Essentially what happened was my daughter who is a sprinter, she's in high school and so she's going to get extra coaching and extra help. And we went to this trainer who was recommended to us, like this coach guy, and I'm like, okay, she's seen other trainers and she's already very good. But we want her to improve. She wants to improve. And so we go to him, okay, let's see what he can do. I don't know. And there was an evaluation, he called. I'm like, okay, so he's just going to watch her run or something. And so he did, but he's videoing it. And as she's doing it, I'm like, oh, she looks really strong. She looks really good. She's a natural athlete.
Afterwards, he came over, hey, come check this out. And so he showed the video, and he would go slow motion and kind of pause and be like, look and see how her knee is in this position.
It would be much better if it was over here. And then look at how her hips are turned there. And look how this, and look how this that's off here's. This missing this. And he pointed out so many issues that I was like, whoa. And then he went into, okay, here's how you're going to solve it. We need to fix it this way. She needs to build up strength here. She needs to get better form over here. And I'm like, wow. He basically ran my whole sales process at me, and I loved it and ate it up because it was exactly what we needed. We need to be shown that she has an opportunity. She's missing speed. She's missing length and jumps because of this and this. And he knows how to fix it. And it was pretty cool.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: I mean, video is so powerful. I think that's why I lean towards it so much.
It's easier for me to capture video than it is to write a lot of times, and I believe that it's just better. But I think the algorithms don't agree. I think Twitter being the other know, sure is an interesting place these days. And I think that it's possible that Elon will make a run at YouTube with Twitter and he could be.
[00:35:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah, he wants to we'll see what happens there.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it's you know, I think the third one is obviously like I think that if I had to pick a single place, that's where I'd spend all of my energy.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:12] Speaker C: And why?
[00:36:12] Speaker A: I don't I don't know. I think I'm chicken because it's not truly social media, but it is just an enormous place for discovery.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: Agreed, agreed. We've gotten several clients from there.
[00:36:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Interesting. Do you get a lot from LinkedIn? I would suppose so.
[00:36:26] Speaker B: Like, sales LinkedIn is our number one source. Yeah.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Number one over, like, organic and SEO or number one social channel.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: Number one, everything.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: At one point, we were 100% LinkedIn. Now we're about 60%.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: Wow.
To what do you attribute that? Just, like, consistently posting quality stuff and being helpful.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Yeah, consistent value. Just every day we're on there posting something, we're interacting, we're helping, we're sharing. And I think people just get a lot out of it and they realize, hey, if he's sharing this for free, what can he do for me if I paid?
[00:37:03] Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome.
Matt for folks who want to check out all that stuff, like, where's the best place for folks to kind of check you out and learn more.
[00:37:11] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah. You can find me on LinkedIn. Matt Wallach. W-O-L-A-C-H. You can also go to Mattwallock.com. I've got a bunch of different resources there, like free giveaways in terms of spreadsheets and scorecards that you can check to see if you are aligned with all the best benchmarks for growing your business.
And then my SMS marketing tool is Torow Wave. Torowave.com.
[00:37:35] Speaker C: Awesome.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: It's good to chat, budy. Thank you.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Thanks, Craig. Appreciate it.
