Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00 <inaudible> welcome to the rogue startups podcast. We're two start up founders are sharing lessons learned and pitfalls to avoid in their online businesses. And now here's Dave and Craig.
Speaker 1 00:23 Oh, right. We'll come back to another episode of rogue startups. This is episode one 80. Dave, how are you doing this week?
Speaker 2 00:30 I am doing great. Uh, I just got back from a little short vacation in the mountains and I'm heading out next week on vacation, which I'm very much looking forward to need a little time to recharge the batteries. So.
Speaker 1 00:43 Nice. Nice. You're a, you're sounding very European. It's funny. I was on a call with my mastermind group today and they're both the two other guys there are here in Europe and we were like, okay, so when's the next time we can talk? Uh, August 20th.
Speaker 2 01:00 Yeah,
Speaker 1 01:00 it's like a, I'm just going to be gone for the whole month of July.
Speaker 2 01:03 Yeah, that's interesting. Uh, I know that well, like, yeah, I mean my July is looking pretty weird as well. I'm have a couple of camping trips on there. We've got the big trip down to Costa Rica with a family. And just other activities like pretty much every weekend for me now in July is booked. It's just gone.
Speaker 1 01:22 Yeah. Nice. Nice. Uh, yeah, it's great. A, I mean, it's great time of year to be able to unwind and stuff. Businesses typically slower in the summer or so, you know, you're not missing as much as if it was, you know, beginning or the end of the year
Speaker 2 01:36 unless you're masochistic like me and have a release plan for your classified plugin in the middle of the month, you know, Nice. When you're not there. Well, no, I've actually, I wasn't gonna have it like it was supposed to be today. Uh, we've moved that because I'm going to be out of town and that made my support person nervous and rightly so because if something went sideways, I wouldn't necessarily be there to coordinate it. And yeah, it just, yeah, this is a pretty big release. I think it would be appropriate for me to be around if it was a minor when I'd be like, toss it out the door. You guys handle it, but not this one. This one's been in the making for a long time. So yeah, I postponed that until July 16th. Nice. Nice. Yeah.
Speaker 1 02:17 Um, yeah, I have a couple updates from my side. Um, the most exciting I think is we're, uh, we are hiring, I don't know if we talked about this on the last episode because it's been a while since just you and I talked,
Speaker 2 02:30 I've seen it on Twitter where you're talking about that and Jonathan's talking about that, but I don't know if we mentioned it.
Speaker 1 02:35 Yeah. So, you know, part of the tiny seed did and you know, some of the funding we got there is we are hiring a full time marketer. So, uh, we are calling it a full stack marketer. Um, and this person will be doing a bit of everything but really looking for someone with a really strong competency in like inbound marketing. So content, SEO, keyword research, a kind of funnel visualization and working funnels. Um, so if you are that person or if you know that person, uh, send them our way. We have a, uh, a job posting up in the show notes here, uh, where you can check out more details and stuff. But uh, yeah, we're very, it's very exciting to be kind of interviewing and talking to some of the people that we're talking to cause they're like super high caliber marketers much better than me, which is cool and intimidating at the same time. But it's a really cool process to be going to.
Speaker 2 03:30 Yeah. Yeah. That's most excellent. I hope you find somebody good. So I guess as far as other updates go, you know, I have had a couple of issues with recapture here over the last month and today was another one of them that cloudflare outage that has been kicking everybody in the teeth kicked us in the balls as well for the second time. It was like, I mean after it happened this time today, I was like, Oh man, you're not going to make me switch off a cloud flare. Cause we're using them for DNS and proxying. Uh, and it works great to keep a lot of spammy, crappy traffic off the site and it's been otherwise a very, you know, low friction kind of thing. But it doesn't really matter whether you were ever like a paid account or free account. We happen to be free accounts, everybody got screwed. So, you know, it kind of makes me think to myself, you know, if this happens again, what am I going to do as an option to get off of cloudflare because I'm not gonna keep putting up with this cause you know, two hour outages, one hour outages. That's, you know, that's big stuff.
Speaker 1 04:32 Yeah. Yeah. What did they say was the problem? Do you know or is it too early for, I mean, for today's it's probably too early to know what the problem was.
Speaker 2 04:40 No they didn't. So it's one of those very vague, we've, you know, fixed the problem and we're monitoring and Yada Yada Yada. Yeah. I got ahold of their incident report and it just was very vague on details. So you know, there, whatever it is, for whatever reason, they're not being that transparent about it. Maybe somebody has better information than me, but this is what I got directly from cloudflare status, app.com or app status.com. Uh, it was forwarded to me from another service that was also affected. I think it like nailed bare metrics. It probably got dripped. It definitely got Shopify. So yeah, I mean everybody was in a bad, bad way today if you were on any of those services.
Speaker 1 05:22 That's tough. That's tough. We, um, we don't use any cloud flare, but we host both of our marketing sites for podcast motor and for Casto. So they're both wordpress sites, like on the front end, uh, on Ken Sta. And it has been an a wonderful platform to host on, like we moved from WPN Jen to Ken Sta and it's just wonderful. But they host a, their backend is Google app engine and about two weeks ago, Google app engine went down for several hours.
Speaker 2 05:51 Yeah, I remember that one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 05:52 Is that effected Shopify too? I know and I was just like, ugh. I mean, you can't, you can't break them too much. It's not their fault. Right. But you're like, dude, this is my entire business. Like, I mean it's not my entire business, but it's on my entire marketing site. Uh, it's just, it's stuff I feel for those folks. And that happens. It's just, it's so crippling, you know?
Speaker 2 06:13 Yeah. But at the same time, I mean, I, I'm very sympathetic as well and I don't want to to give the impression that I don't really feel for what these guys are going through or what Google app engine, you know, that whole service, any I, I've been through several production outages on software I've written and it's very stressful and just getting through it and bringing everything back up and making sure that it all works is an incredibly difficult thing to do under that level of stress. But you know, you kind of want to hold these providers to a higher standard and you have to ask yourself like, why are you, you know, cloudflare is, for all intents and purposes, the DNS of the Internet for the most part. I mean there are major, Major, major provider. So when you have a two hour outage, I mean you're, you're screwing the world and you know, my question would be, what is it that you're doing to prevent this in the future?
Speaker 2 07:10 Because if you can't give me confidence that this platform that powers a significant percentage of the Internet is not stable, then why would I stay with your platform? You know, it makes me as a low, as a small service provider that relies on them look bad. And you know, people have, like I remember a little while ago when everybody was complaining about drips, reliability and deliverability, they were having issues with other downstream or upstream providers. And you know, your drip, you don't have control over these things, but you rely on them part as part of your infrastructure. What do you do? Because it basically causes your customers to get really angry and then you lose trust and bleed customers as a result of that. You know, how do you, how do you work against that? You know, it's not like you have the engineering staff have Netflix and you can build chaos monkey and test your entire infrastructure against all these really wackadoodle scenarios. You know, there's just limits to what you're able to do. So yeah, I dunno, that's an open question.
Speaker 1 08:11 Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I think it's, you know, go with the big established players that are on the big platforms that hopefully are doing all the right things, you know, obviously not going with like these smaller players for something that's mission critical. Like that is important. Now I heard a wanted like the CTO of slack at a SAS doc last year gave a talk on, on kind of some of this stuff and he said they, they consider themselves a utility, you know, like the power company, uh, and try to have like utility level uptime. Um, and this is ironic, like wish like went down on Friday I guess for a couple.
Speaker 2 08:45 Yeah. Well that's,
Speaker 1 08:47 and it's just, it happens everybody. I mean, if Facebook went down a couple months ago, like it just happens to everybody and we all get pissy about it. But then we move on, especially, you know, like you're a free user, right? Of Claude for I'm a free user of slack. It's like goes down. I'm like, well, I'm getting what I paid for. You know, like it, it should be up all the time, but when it goes down in your free user, I think you can only, you know, bitch and complain so much.
Speaker 2 09:09 Yeah. I mean it's certainly, I, you know, when, if, when, when slack went down, I don't even know that I noticed cause I just don't spend that much time on slack. And so if it was down for a couple of hours, you know, it didn't ruin my life or anything like that. But if like stripe goes down and I've missing two hours of payments, you know, that can really suck. Yeah. So I think it just sorta depends on the service itself. You know, Facebook goes down for two hours. I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over that, but you know, my cloudflare goes down, you know, that's, that's a big deal when people can't reach my site because of their problems. So,
Speaker 1 09:40 yeah, yeah, Yup, Yup. Uh, the last quick thing for me is we were at WordCamp Europe last week, a day of, I heard you're a interview, your talk with Matt Modarres, which was absolutely wonderful and you had a lot more guts than I did to talk about some of those challenging things and word breasts. But,
Speaker 2 09:56 uh, uh,
Speaker 1 10:00 uh, we had a really nice time. Uh, both of our developers came to Berlin, uh, like a day and a half before the conference. And we get to spend a little bit of time together just us, you know, working in team building and stuff like that. Um, it's really cool. And the conference was, was really good, you know, typical kind of wordpress stuff. Um, but it was really good. Got a lot of good connections and, and things that we can kind of work going forward. So it was really nice.
Speaker 2 10:23 Very cool. Yeah. And I wanted to just give a quick shout out to, uh, Jan Iceland. Uh, I apologize if I slotted your last name on that and Luke Perry for sending followup emails about the wordpress discussion. It was great to have some interaction with you guys over email and talk more about that. And you know, we actually got a lot of Twitter discussion after that as well. People were, you know, weighing in about how this really affected the community and when you are WordCamp Europe, you said that there was, you know, a little bit of drama there going on with Matt Mullenweg.
Speaker 1 10:55 Oh Man, they roasted the guy. I mean, I think it's a pretty typical thing of, you know, he gives this kind of miniature state of the word is what he does at WordCamp us. But like this men miniature presentation about what's going on with wordpress. And it was all about Gutenberg and afterwards, I mean people just lit in to him about about a lot of stuff, about a lot of stuff about Gutenberg, a lot of stuff about like transparency and the, you know, kind of conflict with automatic and how they're monetizing things through jetpack and all this kind of stuff. And I mean, some of the people were just rude. I mean, you know, he's not God, right? He's not like the god of wordpress. Even, right. I mean, wordpress even as kind of bizarre as their relationship is like wordpress is bigger than him and there's a lot of people to make the decisions. He's the one that like ultimately has to answer, answered all that stuff. But, um, yeah, I mean, I felt like some of the people that were given him such a hard time where we're crossing the line, but it was just interesting to see, I guess.
Speaker 2 11:55 Yeah, the community definitely has strong opinions about Gutenberg, that's for damn sure. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, well, I mean, we've talked about all of that in the wordpress episode, so we don't need to rehash all of that. But did you, did you get any takeaways from WordCamp Europe that you want to share here?
Speaker 1 12:14 No.
Speaker 2 12:15 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 12:17 you know, it's interesting. I didn't go to any talks. Uh, so my, my takeaway from working up Europe was meeting people. Like I met Hugh Lash Book, the guy that built seriousness of all podcasts and the plugin we bought to kind of start <inaudible>. So that was great. And just being able to hang out with Jonathan, Dan Lowe or you know, our developers and other people that I know of the, you know, in the wordpress world, uh, got to get to meet them and hang out. Um, Brad to Nord from delicious sprains and his team and all this kind of stuff was, that's the reason I went. And then, you know, trying to meet some, some are potential future partners to do like marketing, marketing deals together and stuff. Like that's the whole reason I went. Um, the, the wordpress specific stuff, I didn't really go to it all.
Speaker 2 12:58 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I've heard the same thing about WordCamp us that, you know, most people, if you're going as a word, a wordpress business person where you're like your, your businesses on wordpress, the talks don't have the same kind of value as if you're like an agency or you're going as, you know, maybe a community member or something like that. Yeah. So, yeah, that's fine. That's fine. That's cool.
Speaker 1 13:21 Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, man. Today we're going to talk through an article from the foundation, uh, about like a tear down of some Facebook ads. So the reviewed a hundred B2B SAS, Facebook advertising campaigns and pulled away, I'll say some, some nuggets. Uh, Dave and I are not going to talk through every last bit of this article because this article is 5,000 words probably. But, um, but some, some kind of things, some takeaways maybe that we really pick out, uh, to say like, this is really interesting and maybe we should die. You know, we all should dive into this kind of thought, some more, uh, as like a starting point to some stuff with, with our paid acquisition efforts.
Speaker 2 14:11 Yeah. So let's just dive right in on some of the interesting bit here. So they, you know, we'll link to the article in the show notes so you can actually go through all 5,000 words yourself and draw your own conclusions of course. But some of the interesting bits that I found when I was coming through this data here was first of all that they, you know, figured out which adds the the hundred B2B SAS companies are doing out there because there's now this ability to go to the individual pages that these people are using to, to do their advertising for them. So let's say for example, your Hubspot, now you can log in to hubspot's page and then find out, well what ads are they? What's, what is their advertising campaign actually look like here? And so I actually did some competitive analysis on other email marketing tools in e-commerce to find out are they running ads?
Speaker 2 15:02 What are those ads look like? What's the content of those ads? What are the images, what is the copy? All of that sort of stuff. So if you're not aware of that, I highly recommend digging in there because it's very instructive about what your competition is actually doing, if anything on Facebook. I found that not everybody was doing something on Facebook, which was also interesting as well. Uh, but the first little tidbit that they came out with in this article here had to do with custom images. So the first question they ask was what did these B2B SAS companies use in their Facebook ads? So the choices were customer branded image, a video link, an unbranded stock image or something else. And interestingly enough, 69% of these companies actually went through and either did a custom image or they added some kind of branding to the image. So they're not just out there on stock photo.com or I stock or whatever those other companies that are out there just digging stuff up and shoving them up on Facebook. Which is kind of interesting because do you remember that conversation that we had with Motsa saying that, you know, if you just put grab a stock photo, throw it up there, see how it works. Don't you know, don't spend a lot of time on this, but obviously people are spending a lot of time on this.
Speaker 1 16:21 Yeah, I mean I think this is like a, you know, what's the term like separates the men from the boys. Maybe a is like the, a lot of the B2B SAS terms and audiences that these guys are going after, these companies are going after our super competitive. And so just throwing up a stock image probably used to work and now doesn't because it's so competitive. And so they've probably found, they've obviously found that spending the extra time and money on like a branded image makes a difference cause they're almost all doing it, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 16:55 Yeah. And so obviously you have to kind of factor that into if you're doing Facebook ads, you, you know, if you're gonna do variations now you've got to decide, all right, do I have image variations as well? If so, what are those variations look like? So, you know, that's just adds more complexity to doing your Facebook ads out there. But I did think that was very interesting and I think anecdotally, I probably had a strong sense that that was probably playing out anyway because most of the time when I've seen ads pop up in Facebook, they generally have like something branded or something custom to make them stand out. Because the whole point is to try to grab somebody's attention since you don't have that much time to do it. And that's what they do to grab that.
Speaker 1 17:37 Yup, Yup. Yeah. I mean it's either this custom image or it's a video, which is definitely custom. So basically nothing is stock. Uh, and that's, that's crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 2 17:46 Right. But the video, the video links only 23%. So most people are just doing straight up images and they're not trying to do videos. There's another takeaway on the video ads that we'll get to here in a minute and I won't spoil that one. But yeah, go ahead with the next point.
Speaker 1 18:00 No. So I actually want to go to, to some of the talk about generally with like the flow on Facebook, and I think this is really important when you think about the difference between like Facebook ads and ad words. Google ad words is you, you run a customer, you can run a customer all the way from like the very top of the funnel all the way to the bottom of the funnel in Facebook ads. Whereas, typically in somewhere like adwords, you're only dealing towards like the bottom half of the funnel. Um, and, and the, they have a really cool like infographic here looking at these hubspot, uh, ads looking at you have a stranger that you're trying to attract to your site to become a visitor. And once they're a visitor, you want to convert them and attract and convert are both different ads, um, and you convert them into becoming a lead.
Speaker 1 18:47 And then you show a lead, a different ad, uh, that has all different messaging and calls to action, all this kind of stuff to close them into, to a customer. And then you delight them to become a promoter. So the five like phases of a, of a customer are a stranger, a visitor, a lead, a customer, and then a promoter. And the four kind of phases of ads that you run to, those people are to attract, convert close and delight. And I mean, shit, Dave, this could be an entire podcast, not an episode, but entire uninter podcasts talking about this. But I think that anyone who's just looking to run Facebook ads, especially to a cold audience that doesn't know you, you have to think about like the entirety of this. And it is daunting as someone who is running Facebook ads and is looking to run more, it is daunting to think about running four different sets of ads and the landing pages they go to and identifying the different customers and all of this shit. Like it's no wonder that people like <inaudible> who are like Facebook ads consultants that run all these forbid companies are, are really successful and can charge a lot of money cause this is really hard complicated stuff to just get your head around the entirety of it, um, much less, you know, actually execute it. So,
Speaker 2 20:02 oh absolutely. And what's even more interesting is that you pointed to this out already, but I just want to emphasize this a little bit. This is very unique to the way that Facebook works. So you could use the Facebook pixel and sit there and as they do certain actions, then flip around the ad that you're going to end up showing to them. Whereas if you're doing something like ad words, you're doing it based on keyword search intent. So now you have to split up all the various keywords and decide, okay, if people are searching to this, they're a stranger, they're searching for this, they're a visitor, and then you'd have to do a retargeting pixel, which Google doesn't really do. You still have to do that through Facebook and that's how you're going to end up doing this. But the whole thing could be done inside of Facebook, which I find is interesting and I don't think that's by accident either.
Speaker 2 20:50 I think that they have specifically designed their advertising platform to make that work that way. So that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. But I totally agree that like the example they showed in the article here is all about hubspot and this is not one person just sort of managing all of this ads. This is a whole full fledged marketing team putting all this together. There's probably dedicated copywriters, somebody who's managing the creatives and then somebody who's trying to set up and and direct these campaigns. So this is definitely a little beyond what I would say is a in the bootstrapper marketing wheelhouse, you've gotta be, you gotta be a Facebook ads Ninja
Speaker 1 21:29 <inaudible>. So Dave, you, uh, you referred to, uh, the difference between text and video, uh, ads for, for these B2B companies. And again, this might change, this might vary for like B to pro-sumer B to c companies, but, um, this is really surprising to me. 76% of companies prefer to use text only ads as opposed to video. Um, everyone you talk to says, oh, video ads get you the cheapest impressions and all this kind of great stuff. Evidently not a for the, for the B2B SAS market.
Speaker 2 22:03 Yeah. And in fact, they talk about on here that hubspot did some testing on video versus text and the video got 20% more clicks, but it's not 100% clear that that is gonna work the same way for everybody. So I, I mean I can't speak for everybody and certainly the fact that 76% opted for the text probably indicates that most folks might feel similarly to what I'm about to say here. And that is I just, I don't have time to watch videos on Facebook about other businesses. I'm there for fucking cat videos. Right? Yeah. And that Andy cat video, that's a business that that's worked for me. I don't want to do that, do that right now. So obviously one in four people is like, oh yeah, I'll do some work while I'm on Facebook. But you know, three quarters of the people that are like, screw that, where am I cat videos.
Speaker 2 22:50 Yeah. So yeah, that, that makes intuitive sense to me. So, you know, stick, stick with the text formats in there, that's for sure. Now here's an interesting one that I was not expecting to have any kind of impact on this whatsoever. Emojis, like who would ever think to use emojis in the ads and then analyze whether these emojis are having an impact or not? I would be like emojis. Yeah, sure. Use Him. Whatever. I don't think they're going to have a big deal or interest or whatever, but I guess only 16% of B2B sass companies are using emojis in their ads, but they are seeing massive increases in their conversions. Just having these things on there. They show an example on here where a company called <inaudible> is using a red flag in their, and they're talking about, uh, it looks like a three, two to three x increase, two and a half increase on conversion rate or click through rate. Excuse me. So who, who would have guessed that? Right? Yeah. I mean, you look at these two ads and you're like, seriously, there's a, there's a red fucking flag on there and that's all it took. That's kind of weird.
Speaker 1 24:10 Yeah, no, this is shocking to me. I mean, I, yeah, I just can't, I can't believe that makes such a big difference. But definitely something like to test. Right. And that's an easy thing to split test between two ads, uh, to, to see what makes the difference. And that seems to be the thing with a lot of stuff that these ad experts say is, you know, get the basics down and then test everything and decide what works good for you and your audience and your business and all that kind of stuff. Because it's probably different for everybody. Right? Like you and I could try emojis and it might be the opposite, but just something to test is probably the, probably the, the takeaway with that.
Speaker 2 24:42 Yeah. I mean it must be something about catching people's eyes or just, you know, you have this wall of text you're scrolling through and if it's a business ad that's all text, since we already know that's the preferred format, here's something that makes it jump out of the thing a little bit and makes it look a little more personal and more Facebooky I guess. I don't know. Cause you're going to have lots of emojis and Facebook posts, so maybe that makes people stop because they're like, oh wait, that might be something that's personal. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Speaking of, uh, testing the, this one really kind of surprised me. Um, B2B SAS companies, 83% of them did not have variations of their ad,
Speaker 1 25:31 which is the easiest thing to, to, to test. I feel like because God testing a different audience and all this kind of stuff is like, ah, custom audiences and pixels and all this kind of shit. But like, yeah, change your ad, change the copy, change the creative. All this kind of stuff is super easy to change. Uh, but I don't know why. I don't know why they're not doing it, but
Speaker 2 25:52 yeah, I'm an add idiot. But I always try to throw out a couple of them there to see. Is there a preference? Is there something that looks different? You know, like try out some headlines, try out different copy, call to action. I mean, you know, I don't, I don't go overkill on it. Maybe I'll do, I think the most I've ever had running at once was like four to six variations of an ad when I was doing some heavy testing with, um, schedule watcher. But yeah, I mean this, this seems like a lost, missed opportunity. So if you're doing variations, you're like you're in the magic 17% that are doing better at optimizing your ads, which that's just crazy. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So the last thing, there was a couple of other things at the very end here about you know, strong visuals and stuff like that, but there was a specific example that kind of funny because I've come across them in a variety of media at this point and basically if you're going to have an ad telling a story like visually and even with video becomes a clear winner to hooking your audience here and getting them to click for more.
Speaker 2 27:02 So the example that they give is lucid chart. So are you familiar at all with lucid chart? Yeah, right? Yup. Yup. So lucid chart has a bunch of videos but I came across one that was about snakes. Um, and if you have ever have you, if you've never seen this, I strongly recommend just going out and googling lucid chart snuck, s n e k and you will find a very amusing video. And it's very kid friendly as well. My kids watch this video over and over and over and now they're like, no step on Snick, you know, danger noodles and murders, bugger. And they have all these funny names for the animals in there. And it's hilarious and it's very much aimed at millennial and Gen z terminology, but it's very accessible to everybody and it totally leads you through this whole story. And at the very end they tie it together with their product.
Speaker 2 27:53 It's beautiful. And you know, I'm not saying that everybody's going to end up with the production quality of lucid charts videos here, but they are very creative. They're very shareable and they are very, very interesting. They're very engaging. Like I've sat and watched this thing multiple times and I can sit here and quote it with my kids. And they had an example in here about, uh, they were talking about Hedgehog, so they call them like spiky flutes and cactus Hans Cactus hamsters and rollouts and hairbrush rats. I mean, just hilarious names. And you'd go through this whole thing and then narrator's reading it off at rapid fire pace. And it's just hilarious. But as a result of that, you know, you get an an ad that is something that people want to share and then it just kinda sticks this in the back of your brain about lucid chart.
Speaker 2 28:39 So I can tell you right now, the next time I need a charting thing right here at lucid charts going to be the top of my mind because of these stupid videos. And you know, this is definitely advanced Facebook video, adding that this is not an intro sort of thing here and they've clearly had a lot of practice with it because if you look at the Lucid Chart Video Library, they've done a lot of these. So they've gotten really good at them. But just the notion of, of having a story that you can engage the audience with is very much in line with what Facebook wants you to do on the platform anyway. So it's very easy to get people to watch these things. And then at the end if you're, if you can find a way to, you know, put your product in there in a seamless way, which lucid chart has done an excellent job of, then it all kind of ties together and it's funny and it's enjoyable. So I would say that that's something that people should look at as well.
Speaker 1 29:32 Yeah, for sure. I mean this is like a I talking about would swat Facebook wants you to do is, you know, Facebook really wants us to write ads that people engage with and share and reply to in like, and all that kind of stuff. It helps you get lower costs per click and all this kind of stuff and that's how they reward you for making good ads versus scammy or salesy ads or whatever. So this is, you know, really savvy thing that they're doing to say like, okay, part of our ad campaign, you know, mix needs to be not just things to promote our tool, but just to, to build brand equity and name recognition. All it's going to stuff. Yeah, it's totally like three Oh one level stuff, not three Oh one redirect, but like level three levels kind of stuff, um, to, to, to have the time and entered energy and kind of mental space to be able to pull these off.
Speaker 1 30:20 But if you can, I think it's great. So yeah. Yeah. And you know, you can waste a lot of time watching these damn videos too. There you go. There you go. Yes, yes. Well I think that's a, that's about it for us this week. Uh, our one ask as always, if you're enjoying the show, if you could share it with someone else who you think would enjoy it as well. And if you have any questions for us or comments about what you're doing with Facebook ads or have seen out there in the Facebook at a sphere, uh, send us a message podcast@roguestartups.com and we'll see you next week. And if you can give us a better word than add a sphere to use next time.
Speaker 0 31:02 Thanks for listening to another episode of rogue startups. If you haven't already, head over to iTunes and leave a rating and review for the show for show notes from each episode and a few extra resources to help you along your journey. Head over to rogue startups.com to learn more. <inaudible>.
